DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Dave Davies. Right now we bear in mind singer-songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson. He died Saturday on the age of 88. He was identified for his evocative songwriting. This is a sampling.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME AND BOBBY MCGEE”)
JANIS JOPLIN: (Singing) I pulled my harpoon out of my soiled, pink bandana. I used to be taking part in smooth whereas Bobby sang the blues. Windshield wipers slapping time, I used to be holding Bobby’s hand in mine. We sang each track that driver knew. Yeah. Freedom is simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. Nothing do not imply nothing, honey, if it ain’t…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN”)
JOHNNY CASH: (Singing) On a Sunday morning sidewalk, I am wishing, Lord, that I used to be stoned ‘trigger there’s one thing in a Sunday that makes the physique really feel alone.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “HELP ME MAKE IT THROUGH THE NIGHT”)
SAMMI SMITH: (Singing) Come and lay down by my facet until the early morning gentle. All I am taking is your time. Assist me make it by the night time. I do not care what’s proper or improper.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE PILGRIM: CHAPTER 33”)
KRIS KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) He is a poet. He is a picker. He is a prophet. He is a pusher. He is a pilgrim and a preacher and an issue when he is stoned. He is a strolling contradiction, partly fact and partly fiction, taking each improper course on his lonely manner again residence.
DAVIES: Some famous songs by Kris Kristofferson. Artwork critic Christine Arnold as soon as wrote of Kristofferson, he is the Marlboro Man with a young coronary heart. Kristofferson’s life took many colourful turns. Born in Brownsville, Texas, in a navy household, he grew to become a promising boxer in his 20s, then a Rhodes scholar in England and later a U.S. Military Rangers helicopter pilot in Germany. He turned down an appointment to show literature at West Level to take an opportunity at songwriting.
Kristofferson went to Nashville within the ’60s, and his first job within the music business was working as a janitor at Columbia Information. There he met Johnny Money, who grew to become his good pal, recorded songs Kristofferson had written and satisfied him to start out recording himself. Kristofferson’s rugged attractiveness and straightforward method made him a pure for movies. He acted in additional than 50 motion pictures, together with Martin Scorsese’s “Alice Does not Reside Right here Anymore,” John Sayles’ “Lone Star” and the 1976 remake of “A Star Is Born” reverse Barbara Streisand.
Within the Nineteen Eighties, he was a part of the outlaw nation supergroup that included Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson and Johnny Money. Kristofferson was inducted into the Songwriters Corridor of Fame in 1985 and the Nation Music Corridor of Fame in 2004. Terry spoke with Kris Kristofferson in 1999. On the time, he’d launched an album titled “The Austin Classes,” which included new variations of his best-known older songs. They started with the track “Me And Bobby McGee.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME AND BOBBY MCGEE”)
KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) Busted flat in Baton Rouge – heading for the trains, feeling practically pale as my denims. Bobby thumbed a diesel down simply earlier than it rained – took us all the way in which to New Orleans. I pulled my harpoon out of my soiled, pink bandana. I used to be blowing unhappy whereas Bobby sang the blues. With them windshield wipers slapping time and Bobby clapping palms, we lastly sang up each track that driver knew. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. Nothing ain’t price nothing, however it’s free. Feeling good was simple, Lord, when Bobby sang the blues. Feeling good was adequate for me, adequate for me and Bobby McGee.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
TERRY GROSS: Kris Kristofferson, welcome to FRESH AIR.
KRISTOFFERSON: Thanks, Terry.
GROSS: Properly, let me ask you slightly bit concerning the track that we simply heard, “Me And Bobby McGee.” What first impressed that track?
KRISTOFFERSON: Fred Foster, who owned Monument Information and Mix referred to as me up, mentioned he had a track title for me. It was “Me And Bobbie McKee.” I believed he mentioned McGee, however really, there was a woman named Bobbie McKee, who was Boudleaux Bryant’s secretary, and so they have been in the identical constructing.
GROSS: Boudleaux Bryant wrote a variety of songs for The Everly Brothers.
KRISTOFFERSON: Sure, he did. You are proper on. And anyway, he mentioned, the hook is Bobbie McKee is a she, you understand? And I believed that sounded just like the worst thought I would ever heard of. However I needed to jot down for – write one thing for him. I had not had something recorded since I would gone to work for his firm. And so I got down to write the track and hid from him for a couple of months. And I went again into the – our studio up there at Mix with Billy Swan and made a demo of it. And everyone preferred the track.
GROSS: Essentially the most well-known line from the track is, freedom’s simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. What impressed that line?
KRISTOFFERSON: Properly, that is what the track was actually about to me – was the double-edged sword, you understand, that freedom is. And once I wrote that, a few of my songwriter buddies in Nashville advised me to take it out of the track, mentioned it was – that it did not match, that the remainder of the imagery was so actual and concrete that it was misplaced to place slightly philosophical line in there.
GROSS: Inform me if I bear in mind appropriately. Did you could have a home that burned down at concerning the time you wrote this track?
KRISTOFFERSON: No. No. I had – I let you know what I had. I used to be dwelling in a condemned constructing on the time, and, you understand, the factor value me, I believe, $50 a month. And any individual had damaged into it through the week that I used to be down within the Gulf of Mexico and trashed the place and stole what little I needed to steal. I bear in mind it was a really liberating feeling to me as a result of the whole lot was gone, and there was nowhere to go however up. I had additionally alienated my household on the time. My spouse had left me, and I used to be separated, you understand, from my children. And I believe I would been disowned by my dad and mom by that point. And it was fairly liberating not having any expectations or something to reside as much as.
GROSS: How did Janis Joplin find yourself recording this track?
KRISTOFFERSON: Bobby Neuwirth taught Janis the track, I consider, and I believe he’d heard it when Roger Miller had recorded it. I first heard that she had sung the track once I got here again from – I would been down in Peru making a film with Dennis Hopper singing “Bob McGee,” as a matter of reality, within the movie. And any individual advised me she had sung it in a live performance. I believe it was in Nashville. After which later, Bobby launched me to her, and we lived out of her home for a few month or so. And we grew to become shut buddies, however I by no means did hear her sing it. I by no means heard her tape of it until the day after she died.
DAVIES: Kris Kristofferson talking with Terry Gross, recorded in 1999. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RODNEY CROWELL SONG, “COME SUNDOWN”)
DAVIES: That is FRESH AIR. We’re remembering singer-songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson by listening again to his 1999 interview. He died on Saturday.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: What yr did you first get to Nashville, and what was it like while you obtained there?
KRISTOFFERSON: I first went there in June of 1965 and was on my manner again from a three-year tour within the Military in Germany – and was on my option to the profession course down at Fort Benning and from there to supposedly to show English, literature, at West Level. And since my navy obligation was already fulfilled, I made a decision I used to be going to get out of the Military and be a songwriter. I had spent a few weeks there simply on tour. I imply, simply, you understand, I used to be on go away and obtained proven round to a number of the songwriter periods and obtained a glimpse of the life. I’ve at all times felt like I used to be actually fortunate to have been uncovered to Nashville at the moment as a result of I am positive it is completely different now.
GROSS: There should’ve been some type of life-changing thought that occurred to you, because you’d been on this navy profession monitor. Your father had been a navy profession man. Was it a sudden change of coronary heart or what that made you assume I am not going to show at West Level, I’ll strive writing songs in Nashville?
KRISTOFFERSON: Properly, I had by no means supposed to make the navy a profession or the educational life. I at all times thought that I’d – I hoped that I’d be a author and be capable to have a artistic life, you understand? After which, properly, after I graduated from faculty – I went to Oxford for a few years, after which I went within the navy for nearly 5 years. And by that point, I had a household and, you understand, a spouse and a daughter. And I believe I kind of despaired of ever making my dwelling as an artist till I went to Nashville. I went there as a result of in my final yr within the Military, or in Germany, I shaped a band and began writing songs once more. I would been writing songs all my life however began actually escaping into it over the past yr I used to be over there in Germany – and went to Nashville to attempt to pedal the songs.
After which once I obtained there, it was so completely different from any life that I would been in earlier than, simply hanging out with these individuals who stayed up for 3 or 4 days at a time, you understand, and nights and have been writing songs on a regular basis. I believe I wrote 4 songs through the first week I used to be there. And it was simply so thrilling to me. It was like a lifeboat, you understand? It was like my salvation.
GROSS: How did you begin making motion pictures? Did you assume, someday, I’ll act?
KRISTOFFERSON: Once I began performing my very own songs, the primary place I ever performed was on the Troubadour membership in Los Angeles. It was type of a hangout like The Bitter Finish in New York. And I believe on the time there was extra individuals searching for new blood as a result of I obtained a variety of affords simply off of performing there. And finally, Harry Dean Stanton gave me a script. I did not even know he was an actor on the time (laughter). I believed he simply sang within the bar there on the Troubadour. However he helped me do a display take a look at for a movie that was referred to as “Cisco Pike.” And I obtained to place my music in it. And I used to be the lead in it, in a movie with Gene Hackman and Karen Black and Harry Dean. And I simply went on from there.
GROSS: Properly, I would like to shut with one other track out of your new CD, “The Austin Classes.” And this can be a track referred to as “The Pilgrim: Chapter 33.” Now, this track is quoted in “Taxi Driver.” The Cybill Shepherd character, Betsy, buys the report for Travis, the taxi driver performed by Robert De Niro. And she or he says that he reminds her of the character within the track, and she or he quotes the road, he is a strolling contradiction, partly fact and partly fiction. How did the track find yourself in “Taxi Driver”?
KRISTOFFERSON: I do not know. I at all times felt like that was the nicest factor that Marty Scorsese ever did to me, you understand?
GROSS: I suppose you had already labored with him in “Alice Does not Reside Right here Anymore.”
KRISTOFFERSON: I labored – yeah. Yeah, however I did not comprehend it was going to be in that one. And, God, he had – there’s De Niro holding up my album.
GROSS: (Laughter).
KRISTOFFERSON: And so they’re quoting me like Bob Dylan or one thing. It was – I nonetheless assume that is one of many sweetest issues I’ve ever seen anyone do for anyone within the enterprise.
GROSS: And who did you write the track about?
KRISTOFFERSON: Properly, I wrote it about myself and about a variety of buddies of mine that I believed have been, you understand – Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Chris Gantry and Johnny Money and everyone I knew on the time. And a variety of us have been 33 on the time. That is why it is referred to as “Chapter 33” – and Dennis Hopper. I bear in mind once we have been down in Peru, each time that you’d inform any individual you have been 33 years previous, they’d say, oh, the age of Christ. In order that kind of match the sample of it.
GROSS: So have been you referring in any respect to the way you and lots of people you knew have been type of self-invented?
KRISTOFFERSON: Ooh, sure, sure – partly fact and partly fiction. You realize, I’ve at all times felt that I and most of the individuals I like are figments of our personal creativeness. I at all times felt that Willie Nelson, Muhammad Ali have been notably profitable at that, at imagining themselves and dwelling as much as what they imagined themselves to be.
GROSS: And also you’re…
KRISTOFFERSON: I bear in mind once I first noticed Muhammad Ali, he was Cassius Clay. He was slightly, skinny, gentle heavyweight over in Rome, and he was telling everyone he was going to be the largest, the perfect. You realize, he was the subsequent Joe Louis. And he imagined himself proper up into that.
GROSS: Do you are feeling you probably did that, too?
KRISTOFFERSON: I believe I did. Once I assume again to once I first was writing my first songs – you understand, like, once I was 11 years previous, down in Brownsville, Texas – I believe that I imagined myself into a fairly full life after that. I used to be definitely not outfitted by God to be a soccer participant, however I obtained to be one. And I obtained to be a ranger and a paratrooper and a helicopter pilot, you understand, and a boxer and a variety of issues that I do not assume I used to be constructed to do. I simply imagined them.
GROSS: Kris Kristofferson. His new CD, “The Austin Classes,” options new variations of his best-known songs, together with the track that is quoted in “Taxi Driver.”
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “TAXI DRIVER”)
ROBERT DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You need to go to a film with me?
CYBILL SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) I’ve to return to work now.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I do not imply now. I imply, like, one other time, although.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) Positive. You realize what you remind me of?
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) What?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) That track by Kris Kristofferson.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) Who’s that?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) The songwriter. He is a prophet and a pusher, partly fact, partly fiction, a strolling contradiction.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You saying that about me?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) Who else would I be speaking about?
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I am no pusher. I by no means have pushed.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) No, no, simply the half concerning the contradiction. You’re that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE PILGRIM: CHAPTER 33”)
KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) He is a idiot, and he is a liar. He is a prophet. He is a dreamer. He is a pilgrim and a preacher and an issue when he is stoned. He is a strolling contradiction, partly true, largely fiction, selecting out the improper course on his lonely manner again residence.
DAVIES: Kris Kristofferson on his track “The Pilgrim: Chapter 33.” He spoke with Terry Gross in 1999. He died Saturday on the age of 88. Developing, John Powers critiques the brand new Apple TV+ movie “Wolfs,” starring George Clooney and Brad Pitt. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAMSEY LEWIS TRIO’S “THE IN CROWD”)
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